Aunt Barbara's Life Story: A Chronological Account

Based on an interview conducted on April 15, 2025

Early Family History

The Birth of Paul (1940)

In July 1940, Aunt Barbara's parents (Herbert Hyman Amass and Helen Elaine Xanthull) had a son named Paul in Baltimore, Maryland. Paul was named after Helen's father, Paul Xanthull. Tragically, Paul only lived for three or four months.

As Aunt Barbara recounts: "The year before Shirley was born was when Paul, our brother was born. He lived three months or four months. I've forgotten. I'll have to look at the picture again. It was either three or four months old, died in daddy's arms. Daddy took him to the doctor. The doctor said, 'Take your baby home. There's nothing wrong with him.' Daddy said, 'No, something's wrong with my baby, and I want you to check him out.' He sat in the waiting area, waiting his turn for the doctor to see the baby, and the baby died in his arms in the doctor's office."

According to Aunt Barbara, her father was so distraught that "Daddy said that he shot the doctor, but he didn't kill him." She believes they may have received a settlement for the doctor's negligence: "But at the same time, because the baby died and the doctor didn't treat him, I felt like they got paid money for the death of the child because it was right after that. Shirley was born in December the fifth in 1941 in Baltimore, Maryland in a snowstorm, and she got written up."

Note: The shooting of the doctor and potential settlement are Barbara's speculation based on family stories and the timing of events. No documentation of either is mentioned in the interview.

Shirley's Birth (December 1941)

Aunt Barbara's oldest sister, Shirley, was born on December 5, 1941, in Baltimore, Maryland during a snowstorm. Her birth was noteworthy enough to be featured in a newspaper article as "the first baby born in this new subdivision." As Aunt Barbara notes: "Shirley was born in December the fifth in 1941 in Baltimore, Maryland in a snowstorm, and she got written up. There's an article I've got of her in the newspaper of her birth. She's the first baby born in this new subdivision."

The Move to Houston, Texas (1942)

Not long after Shirley's birth, the family relocated to Houston, Texas, where Herbert worked as a merchant marine. Aunt Barbara explains: "But what I can't understand is how did they lose the money if they had the house? Because it wasn't long after Shirley was born that they're in Houston, Texas, because then I'm born 13 months later in Houston."

When asked why they moved from Baltimore to Houston, she explained: "The port. See, daddy was a merchant Marine, so any of his jobs are where he lived. He had to be near a ship channel because he was a merchant Marine and had to ship out."

Note: There seems to be some uncertainty in Barbara's account about the family's financial situation after Paul's death and before the move to Houston. She wonders whether they received money from a settlement but then questions how they could have lost it if they owned a house in Baltimore.

Barbara's Birth (January 1943)

Aunt Barbara was born on January 9, 1943, in Houston, Texas, thirteen months after Shirley. She mentions her birthdate when discussing Aunt Bessie: "She was March the first, which would've, if I was born in 1943, she would've been born in 1903 because she was 40 years older than me."

Beverly's Birth (1944)

Beverly, the youngest of the three sisters, was born in 1944. Aunt Barbara emphasizes how close in age they all were: "We were all three 13 months apart because Shirley was born in 1941 in December. Okay. I was born in '43. Beverly was born in '44."

Divorce and Separation from Mother (1945)

Herbert and Helen divorced in 1945 when the children were very young. Aunt Barbara recalls: "And I've gone through now with my papers and looking at the marriage license. I've looked at the divorce papers. They divorced in 19, hold on, 50 45, I want to say it right. I was born in 43. Beverly was born in 44, and in 45 was when the divorce was final. That's how young we were."

The divorce led to a painful separation from their mother. The girls were taught to run away if their mother ever approached them: "We have been taught all this time. If she ever came around, we were to run, which she did, and we did run, which happened after the divorce."

Note: Barbara mentions she has the divorce papers and marriage license, which helped her piece together the timeline of these events.

Childhood Years

Aunt Bessie Becomes Their Caretaker

Herbert enlisted his sister, Bessie Amass Riley, to care for the girls while he was at sea. Bessie, who was 40 years older than Barbara (born March 1, 1903), came to live with them after her husband passed away.

As Aunt Barbara explains: "And that was the same year that the year that I found the family daddy, Billy flew, aunt Bessie, who was daddy's, our daddy's sister. Aunt Missy, came from California, which I figured it was right after whoever had been strangers was who was raising us. Daddy didn't have anyone to keep us. So he got Aunt Missy because Aunt Missy's husband had just passed away. She was a nurse. And so one of the brothers says, 'Why don't you get Bessie to come out there and keep the girls while you ship out?'"

Herbert was away for extended periods: "Which he was gone for three years, and Aunt Bessie kept us. And two of those years he never came home. He was kept sailing around, but didn't come home."

Aunt Barbara provides more details about Aunt Bessie later in the interview: "Bessie was, wait a minute. Bessie was 40 years older than me. She was born in the 1st of March. I was born January the ninth. So every time when I was 40, she was 80... Riley. Bessie Amass Riley. She had lost her husband and buried him when she came to take care of us."

Note: Barbara refers to Aunt Bessie as both "Aunt Missy" and "Aunt Bessie" at different points. It appears these are the same person (Bessie), though the switching between names could be confusing. Also, the timeline of when Bessie came to care for them isn't precisely dated in the interview.

Learning to Find Their Way Home

Herbert taught his daughters to be aware of their surroundings, perhaps out of fear they might be kidnapped. Aunt Barbara recalls:

"Because daddy had built into us, I want to say Daddy was afraid we were going to get kidnapped. I mean, I've always, when I got older, I pieced all this together. I didn't know it when I was younger. Okay. Anyway, daddy had a way that when we would go driving or go somewhere, daddy would say, 'Okay, girls, listen up. When we get in the car to go riding, when I get ready to come back home, y'all got to tell me how to go home. So you got to pay attention to how we're leaving.' And I didn't figure it out then until later. He always wanted us to know how to get home in case somebody ever got us. I mean, this is my mind of my thoughts, but I didn't know it then that's what he was doing."

Social Services Involvement

When Aunt Bessie left, social services began monitoring the family. Years later, Aunt Barbara discovered something remarkable about this period:

"This is what Pauly didn't know at that time, which I found out later, my grandmother and Aunt Cleo came from California to Houston back when we were teenagers. We had, not the welfare, but the social service was keeping an eye on us because when Aunt Betsy left, she made 'em watch over us. Anyway, way they came to see us, my grandmother, through the social service, but they did not tell us that it was our grandmother and aunt. And we didn't even know we met 'em."

Note: Barbara doesn't specify exactly when Aunt Bessie left or how old they were when social services became involved. The reference to being "teenagers" suggests this occurred in the mid-to-late 1950s.

Young Adulthood

Graduation and First Job (1961-1962)

Aunt Barbara graduated high school in 1961 and attended "postgraduate school" that September. She began her first job at the Bank of the Southwest in Houston in January 1962. She provides this timeline when discussing when she encountered her mother's doctor:

"Okay. I graduated in 61, so after I graduated, then I went to postgraduate school that September after I had graduated, and so it would've been January of 62... Yeah, 62. Okay. That I would've started my first job, and so now I'm working, so it was either 62 or 63. I got married in 64."

Discovering Her Mother's Doctor (1962-1963)

While working in Houston, Aunt Barbara fell ill and was recommended a doctor by a coworker. By remarkable coincidence, this doctor had been her mother's physician.

"Anyway, I get sick and I go to the doctor. What are the odds of the doctor that I go to was my mother's doctor... I'm telling you the truth... I've got so many stories that I've got to tell 'em all."

When asked how the doctor recognized her, she explained: "That, because my name was Amos. I wasn't married... Mother's name was AMAs... A-M-A-S-S. Helen was her name... He knew immediately."

Later in the interview, she expresses regret at not asking more questions: "I didn't finish a story about the doctor when I met him that knew my mother. I was so afraid the way I was raised, that I could have communicated with him and got so much information out of him, and I let it pass by. I didn't question or take time to ask questions."

She couldn't recall the doctor's name when asked: "No. No. Uhuh if it Totally, I don't know it."

Note: Barbara doesn't specify what information the doctor shared about her mother, only that he recognized the connection. The full content of their conversation isn't detailed in the interview.

Conversion to Christianity (October 1963)

In October 1963, Aunt Barbara converted to Christianity, a significant decision for someone raised in a Jewish family. Her conversion came through a friendship with a woman named Judith who did her hair:

"Just how I met Billy was because a girl at work won me to the Lord. She was a, and I wasn't. She did my hair. Every Thursday night. I'd go home to her house and she'd do my hair. Back then was when her hairs were teased. Okay. And she was really more a Jehovah Witness in a Baptist church. Okay. But she went to Pine Mount Baptist Church. Anyway, she won me to the Lord."

She adds: "Had Judith not won me to the Lord, I'd have never met Billy because I was one to the Lord. In October."

Kennedy Assassination and Father's Illness (November 1963)

In November 1963, shortly after her conversion, Herbert fell into a coma. Around the same time, President Kennedy was assassinated. Aunt Barbara recalls:

"Daddy got sick. He went into a coma, and his brothers came from Houston. And matter of fact, it was November when he went into coma. Do you remember the day President Kennedy got killed?... He got killed in Houston. Remember Texas rather of Dallas?... Okay. That was the year Daddy was in a coma, and Uncle Harry and Uncle Joe came from Houston to see Daddy. When they arrived, we told them as they came in the door, the president had just been shot. Well, when they got back to California, everybody out there said, did y'all have anything to do with the President? Me too."

She kept her conversion private initially due to family expectations: "I had been wondering the Lord. I had all accepted Jesus, and Beverly and Shirley kept saying, 'Don't you let Uncle Haring [know] because we were Jewish. I wasn't supposed to be a Christian. Don't you let them know that you're not Jewish anymore?' And it was supposed to be real quiet. But anyway, we didn't say anything."

On December 1, 1963, she publicly declared her faith: "But it wasn't until December the first that I was able to walk the aisles for Jesus and say that I was a Christian."

When her father recovered from his coma, he was surprisingly accepting: "Daddy. When he came out of his coma, he said, 'You've changed.' He said, 'If it's your religion, hang on to it. I like to do you.' And the thing about it is, daddy was supposed to disown me because I was no longer Jewish. And instead, I look back on it. Now I know why he couldn't disown me. He married out of the faith. He married a Christian, so how could he condemn me?"

Note: Barbara mentions Kennedy being killed in Houston, though he was actually assassinated in Dallas. This appears to be a momentary slip in the conversation that was corrected immediately.

Learning of Mother's Death (October 1963)

In October 1963, shortly before Aunt Barbara turned 21 and before she married, the family received a call from Uncle Paul in Oregon informing them that Helen had died during surgery. Aunt Barbara recounts:

"My senior year, Shirley and Beverly were away at school. It was after Beverly, not my senior year, but it was after both of them that went to college. Anyway, 1963 before Billy and I got married in 64, that October, we get a call from Uncle Paul in Oregon. He called daddy to tell him that our mother had died on the operating table. She had cancer with the kidneys, and he wanted him to know when the funeral was and all."

Herbert declined to attend the funeral, stating: "I'm not a hypocrite. I didn't love her when she was alive, and I'm not a hypocrite. I will not go to the funeral."

Aunt Barbara was devastated: "And I went to the closet and I cried. And I said, 'Why, Jesus? Why does everybody have to die before I get to see 'em?'"

When asked to clarify the year of her mother's death, she confirmed: "She died in 63 before I turned 21 in. I married in 63 rather, the year before I married, she died."

Marriage (1964)

Aunt Barbara married Billy in 1964. Before the wedding, they visited her father in the hospital. Herbert had lost his second leg in June, but remained determined:

"Then when I was getting married, we went to tell Daddy that I was getting married. He had just lost his second leg in June. We were going to get married in September. He told all the nurses in the hospital, he said, 'My daughter's getting married and I'm going to walk her down the aisle.' He had no legs."

Father's Death (1964)

Herbert Hyman Amass passed away in 1964.

Note: There's a slight inconsistency in the dates Barbara provides. She first says she married in 1964 ("before Billy and I got married in 64"), but later says "I married in 63." Based on the overall chronology and her other statements about getting married in 1964 elsewhere in the transcript, it seems most likely that 1964 is the correct year of her marriage.

The Search for Family

Early Attempts to Find Mother's Family

After marrying Billy, Aunt Barbara began actively searching for her mother's family. She explains the process:

"In the meantime, I knew my mother's maiden name, and Billy would see me right after we got married. On Sundays, I would dial 5, 5, 5, 1, 2, 1, 2, which is information, trying to find my mother's name to find somebody. Well, nobody knew it."

Discovering Family History Through the Trunk

Aunt Barbara's curiosity led her to explore her father's sea trunk, where he kept important documents:

"Daddy had a sea trunk that your mother, I think had daddy's trunk, and in that trunk is what he carried all his important papers and pictures whenever he would go out to see. Okay. And I was curiosity killed the cat because I was the one that would go in that trunk and look at pictures and look at things and piece together. One, I put it all in my memory, and I remember seeing a picture, and one of the pictures that I had was Uncle Paul, and on the back of it it said Paul E Xanthull."

She realized the connection to her mother's maiden name: "Well, when I looked at the birth certificate, my mother's maiden name was Al. Okay. So I pieced together. That's got to be my mother's brother. Okay. Daddy had the picture of it."

She also discovered other information: "Well, he said he had three sons died at birth. One lived, well, he named the oldest one. Paul. I didn't know then that my grandfather, which is my mother's daddy, was named Paul. I thought that he named it after her brother, uncle Paul that lives in Washington state."

Her account of the "three sons" is interesting as she was told that she was "one of three," which she clarifies at the beginning of the interview:

"Boys? Here's the thing about it. I'll give daddy credit for this. He never told me that I was one of three. Okay. And I'm grateful that he didn't, because I didn't, I look back on it, would that have made me feel guilty? Survivor's guilt."

Note: This section of Barbara's story contains some contradictions or unclear elements. She mentions "three sons died at birth" but earlier talked about only one brother (Paul) who lived for 3-4 months. It's unclear whether there were two additional male children who died at birth, or if this is referring to something else. The relationship between being "one of three" (with her sisters) and the "three sons" is not fully explained in the interview.

The Search Intensifies (1983)

In 1983, Aunt Barbara's search for her mother's family became more focused. She explains:

"This was 1983 when I'm trying to piece the family. And that was the same year that the year that I found the family daddy, Billy flew, aunt Bessie, who was daddy's, our daddy's sister. Aunt Missy, came from California on Valentine's Day. I had not seen her in 30 years."

She sought help from popular television shows:

"Here in Montgomery, we had a TV program back then called Leslie Gins. If you were too young, you don't remember 83. But anyway, she was on the national tv and it was here in Montgomery. Right? Well, she came from California to Montgomery, and she went to our big mall that we had, and the way the news people were saying, make a Wish come true, okay. Is what she was going to grant a wish. It's her song. Pick somebody's name out."

Her attempts to get help from television personalities were extensive: "I wrote Phil Donahue a letter. I've got the letters. I wrote Oprah Winfrey. I wrote every Phil Donahue, Oprah Winfrey, and now Leslie Hugins, all these different people trying to get somebody to hear my story, to find my mother. But none of it happened."

Billy flew Aunt Bessie from California to visit them on Valentine's Day, 1983. Bessie stayed for two weeks before going to Houston to see Shirley and Beverly: "And Billy flew her. She arrived Valentine's Day. She stayed here two weeks before she went to Houston to see Shirley in Beverly. And Billy paid for the trip from California to see us in Montgomery and then send her to Houston to see Shirley and Beverly and back home."

Aunt Barbara hoped Bessie might have information about her mother's family, but: "Now, aunt Bessy knew very little. She did not know anything that would help in what I needed to know. She said, 'I only met your mother one time.' She really didn't know much about her."

Note: Barbara mentions having kept the letters she wrote to television personalities, suggesting she has preserved documentation of her search efforts.

The Breakthrough: Finding Paul E. Xanthull (June 1983)

Through her sister Beverly, Aunt Barbara learned that their parents had married in Houston, which gave her a new lead:

"Now, Beverly tells me that our mom and dad got married in Houston. And I'm thinking, I've called Baltimore. I've called Philadelphia, was where our was born, California, but I didn't know really what town to call, but hitting dead ends. Okay? Now, Beverly tells me, Houston and I dawned on me, I didn't call Houston. Been calling all these others."

With this new information, she tried a different approach:

"Now, what I'm calling was to try to find the person named Paul E Xanthull. Okay? Now I've got Houston as a number, and so I dial up information for Houston. They say, 'What city?' And I say, 'Houston.' Okay. I said, 'Do you have a listing for Paul E Xanthull?' She looks up. She says, 'Yes, we do.' I started screaming, 'They're alive! They're alive! I found someone.'"

However, the number was unlisted: "I said, 'What is the number?' I'm telling the operator, give me the number. She's telling me she's got it. She said, 'I'm sorry. I can't give you that number. It's an unlisted number.' I said, 'But you got to give it to me. It's my family. I'm trying to find.' 'Ma'am, I cannot give you that number.'"

Aunt Barbara drew strength from a sermon she had heard: "This is also the preacher back in January of 83. The first sermon he was preaching was on positive thinking. If the devil throws you a negative, you let Jesus throw you a positive. So I come to Billy and I said, 'Billy, I found somebody. I found somebody, bless Billy's heart. He was so patient with me back then trying to find them.'"

Through a connection, she eventually obtained an address: "Through some detective work, I finally got, now the name that I had... I am going to tell you what happened is our cousin knew somebody that worked in Houston at the water work, water department, and she was able to get from that lady an address to that name."

She found this information in June: "Now, this is in June when I found this. Okay, so now I've got a name and I got an address."

Note: There are variations in how Barbara spells the last name throughout the interview - sometimes "Xal," sometimes "Zal," sometimes "Al." This may reflect her uncertain knowledge of the spelling at different points in her search or could simply be transcription variations from the audio recording.

The Journey to Houston (October 1983)

After finding the address, Aunt Barbara was eager to visit: "I'll go back to Billy. We got to go to Houston, and he looked at me like, 'I can't go. We're busy working now.' Listen now. He says, 'But I'll take you in October.' Now, this is June."

She saw this delay as part of a divine plan: "Here. Again, God's saying, okay, positive thinking. You got to wait on the Lord. In his time is when things would happen."

She acknowledges Billy's support throughout this journey: "Now you have to give Billy the part of being loyal and really wanting me to find the family. He had patience. He was willing to drive from Montgomery to Houston with a name on the address that I was saying with family. He had to have the faith to believe I had found family."

In October 1983, Billy and Aunt Barbara drove to Houston:

"We go to Houston. Now, the kids are still in school... This is 83 when it happened. Okay, so it was the year before Philip would've graduated. No, we hadn't gone to Pensacola yet. It doesn't matter. Anyway, so now we go to Houston. Billy and I drive all the way to Houston, and we get to this address of this name. Four o'clock in the afternoon? Yeah, four o'clock in the afternoon. Okay. We go there and nobody's at home."

Billy took initiative to find more information:

"Billy run, get over there. Okay. But on their door, on the panel, you open the door, and then over here is the mailbox. It's up on their wall. Okay. Billy looks, and the whole, he sees mails in the mailbox. So he decided, 'I've come all this way. I got to know for sure that she's got a xantha in this thing.' He pulls out the mail. Sure enough, it's addressed to Paul E Xanthull. But guess what was in the mailbox. It was a telephone bill. And on the little outside envelope, you could see the telephone number."

Billy memorized or wrote down the number: "Billy quickly memorizes the number. Wrote it down in the of my hand. Oh, he wrote it. Okay. I thought he'd memorize. Okay. So he runs back to the car. He said, 'I got a number.'"

The next day, they called the number: "So now Billy goes and he dials this number up. Nobody's at home morning. Oh, it was the next morning. Anyway, nobody was at home, and then answering machine came on. Okay. Billy said, 'Nope, that's not your uncle. He said, you said it was your uncle, and he's got to be old, and this sounded like a young person.'"

Aunt Barbara remained hopeful: "Well, here comes the Lord again. I said, 'Well, maybe he had his son record the recording.' That's it, instead of the daddy."

Indeed, it turned out to be Paul E Xanthull, Jr. (Pauly), who had moved from California to Houston just six months earlier:

"Now, Pauly is the son, uncle Paul's son. Pauly was, who was at that address? He had only moved from California to Houston six months before we got there. Remember, I was wanting Billy to take me in June. Would've been there. Would've been there. Yeah. He would've just been there. But he was just there. Yeah. He was just there."

Aunt Barbara clarifies the names: "No, Paul E. Paul. E Paul. A was uncle. Uncle Paul was Paul A, because his daddy, which was my grandfather, was Paul A Sam."

When Pauly returned the call, Billy explained:

"So now Pauly calls Billy. Okay. So Billy's on the phone with him. He said, 'Wait a minute. He said, do not hang the phone up. I am not a prank caller... I have reasons to believe that you are related to my wife.'"

Remarkably, Pauly didn't know about his aunt (Aunt Barbara's mother) or her children:

"Well, it turned out Pauly had moved to Houston, but he didn't know nothing about the Xanax. Oh, wow. Even though he was a Zan... He's there just by happenstance. Just coincidence... He knew Aunt Cliff. So anyway, Billy tells him this story, and he sets up for us to come see him. In the meantime, he gets on the phone and calls California to Aunt Cliff because he don't know anything about his aunt, which is our mother and our mother's children or any of this."

Pauly contacted his Aunt Cleo in California: "So he tells Aunt Cleo, he said, 'look, I got somebody that just called me on the phone, and they said, they're related to me. And who is this? A barber.' And we went on to tell who we were in Cleo."

This led to Aunt Barbara speaking with Aunt Cleo for the first time and finally learning about her mother's family.

Note: There's some confusion in the transcript about whether Paul's last name is spelled "Xal," "Zal," or "Xanthull." Barbara uses different variations throughout, sometimes within the same sentence. Also, the pronouns and speaker attributions are sometimes unclear in the original transcript. The general sequence of events remains clear despite these ambiguities.

Trip to California (October 1984)

In October 1984, a year after finding her mother's family, Aunt Barbara traveled to California to meet them in person. She explains what prompted the trip:

"It was the following year in October. Billy was working in Atlanta. That uncle, aunt Cleo's, husband Howard was having cancer surgery, and Uncle Paul and Aunt Rachel were coming from Oregon to Aunt Cleo's house for Uncle Paul's surgery, aunt husband's surgery, uncle Howard."

She decided this was the perfect opportunity to meet everyone:

"I called Billy up and I said, 'I got to go to California.' He said, 'You got to go where?' No, you waited until I got, yeah. Home. Yeah. Got home. And I said, 'I've got to go to California.' I said, 'Oh, aunt Cleo's husband is going to have surgery, and she, the whole family, and I'll get to meet all of the, and I said, and Aunt Betsy had come the year before on Valentine's Day, and this is October a year later, and I'm saying, if I go, then I'll also get to see Aunt Bessy again.'"

During her visit, she stayed three days at Aunt Cleo's house and met many Xanthull relatives: "I stayed three days at Aunt Cleo's house, met the Zan Falls."

Uncle Paul then drove her to Aunt Bessie's house: "Then Uncle Paul on Wednesday said I had to go to then where Aunt Bessy lived. And so instead of me renting a car to go that way, he said, 'We got to go to the airport. We'll just take you to Aunt Bessie's house because we got plenty of time before we have to catch the plane.' And so I said, 'Okay.' So he then drove me to Aunt Bessie's house."

When they arrived, Aunt Barbara was met with shocking news:

"When we got there, I looked at Aunt Bessie and I said, 'Aunt Bessie, you've lost weight.' Irene said, 'Barbara, it's not Aunt Bessie. It's Irene. Aunt Bessie died this morning at the bus stop.'"

Bessie had passed away that very morning while waiting for a bus to go grocery shopping for a special meal to welcome Aunt Barbara:

"She died the morning that I got there. She had gone to the bus stop to ride to the grocery store to get what we were going to have for supper meal, a special meal. And while she was sitting there waiting on the bus to come, she had a heart attack and died."

When Jason asks who Irene is, Barbara explains: "Irene is my daddy's brother. Uncle Harry. Your first cousin is his daughter. He had two girls and one boy. Wow. Irene was, Irene was my first cousin. We had never met. I then met her, the Amos side of the family."

Irene was about 10 years older than Barbara: "She was, Irene was what, 10 years older than me? Yeah, 10 years older."

It was through this tragedy that Aunt Barbara met Irene, connecting her with more of the Amass side of the family.

Note: There's a discrepancy regarding whose surgery was happening. Barbara first says "Uncle Paul's surgery" but then corrects it to "aunt husband's surgery, uncle Howard." It appears Howard (Aunt Cleo's husband) was the one having surgery, and Uncle Paul was visiting from Oregon for this event.

Seeing Her Mother's Picture

When Aunt Barbara met Aunt Cleo, she asked for a picture of her mother, something she had never seen. She explains the emotional significance of this request:

"But she turned, and let me tell you something else. Daddy tore up every picture of her. He did not keep a single one. And when I found Aunt Cleo, her sister, I asked her, I said, 'Aunt Cleo, the one thing I would like to have that I've never had.' I said, 'What does my mother look like? I've never...'"

Aunt Cleo sent her a photograph of Helen with a feathered hat:

"That was the first picture that I got when Aunt Cleo, when I met her over the phone, I asked, the only thing I said was, 'Send me a picture.' And she sent me that picture and the picture of our dad. So she even had our dad's picture."

During the interview, Stephanie (who appears to be present during the interview) mentions they're looking at a picture of Helen: "Yeah. Helen, Elaine... And she looked, the picture I have is the one that shows her that she looks just like your mother."

When she saw the photograph, Aunt Barbara realized how much her sister Shirley resembled their mother: "She looks just like your mother. Shirley was a spitting image of her."

Stephanie confirms this resemblance: "She really is. I mean, we're looking at a picture of her right now, and it is completely Jason's mom."

This revelation helped Aunt Barbara understand why her father had been particularly strict with Shirley:

"Oh, I think it was a whole thing, because Shirley took the blunt of everything. I mean, she was the oldest daddy. Daddy was so strict on Shirley, and I didn't know it then until I got this picture. Then I pieced it together. That's why Daddy always was so cruel to Shirley, was that she was a spitting image of her mother. And Shirley didn't know it."

Stephanie again confirms the striking resemblance: "She really was. I mean, I'm looking at her right now and I'm like, oh my God, am I looking at Shirley or am I looking at..."

Aunt Barbara responds: "Right. Yes. Right. You see what I'm saying? Well, that was the first picture of how I've got to see what our mother looked like."

Note: This seems to have been an especially emotional revelation for Barbara, connecting her sister's difficult relationship with their father to the physical resemblance to their mother. The fact that others in the room during the interview immediately recognized the resemblance validates Barbara's observation.

Additional Family Stories

Grandfather's Candy Business

Aunt Barbara shared additional information about her maternal grandfather's business in Houston:

"Aunt Cleo. Okay. Okay. They lived in Houston. Now, our granddaddy, her daddy owned the St. Bridges candy. He had the first chain business in Houston. Okay. Okay. The candy company."

She also mentions an interesting connection involving Aunt Cleo's former boyfriend:

"She had a boyfriend back then, and he turned out to be a doctor. Okay. She could have married him, and I think they were going to elope one time, but she did... This is ain't Cle I'm talking about. Okay. Anyway, she didn't, it turned out he became a doctor. He was the doctor that delivered Douglas and Beverly's three children. The doctor that almost married my aunt."

Father's Wooden Leg Story

Aunt Barbara shared a remarkable story about her father sending his prosthetic leg to the President of the United States:

"Oh, yes. Let me tell you, daddy, when he got his leg, he was a merchant Marine. So he went to the Merchant Marine Hospital, which is like Billy going to the VA here. Anyway, they gave him this wooden light. I mean, it was a heavy light. We'd help him. It is a trunk of a tree. Put it out... Yeah. It was made of wood."

Her father found the wooden leg too heavy and difficult to use:

"Anyway, it got to where he couldn't stand it. Well, Beverly by then had had learned. She was driving. And while I was at work, and it was summertime, Beverly was home. Daddy said, 'Okay, we're going pack my leg up.' He told her what box to get and everything. Got the paper thing, and he wrapped it up. He said, 'Now address it too, the president of the United States.'"

He included a letter explaining his frustration:

"And before he wrapped it up, he had a letter in it. He put in the letter, he said, 'Dear Mr. President, I just wanted to send you what you say the government says that I'm supposed to use for a lake. He said, it's so heavy. It takes my children to have to help hold it, to put it on me. And since it's so heavy, I can't wear it. So if this is what you want me to wear, I can't wear it. You find someone who can, I don't need it.'"

When asked why he sent it to the President rather than someone else, she explained her father's philosophy:

"No, no. Lemme tell you why he sent it to the president. This is what I keep telling Billy Every time. Daddy said, 'If you got to do something, do it right the first time. Go to the top. Don't go into anybody under the top person. If you want something done, take it to the top.' And that's why he sent it to the President."

Faith and Reflection

Throughout her narrative, Aunt Barbara repeatedly attributes the remarkable coincidences and connections in her life to divine intervention. She begins the interview with this perspective:

"Memory before I get, when you hear my stories, they're true. But at the same time, you look back on it and you have to say, God was there because it's the only way I got through it... Because by All right. So many different times I was supposed to be gone."

She views the timing of events—such as finding Pauly who had only recently moved to Houston, or the circumstances surrounding her religious conversion—as evidence of God's hand in her life:

"God's saying, okay, positive thinking. You got to wait on the Lord. In his time is when things would happen."

When reflecting on her family history and her mother, she takes a balanced view:

"Well, I looked back on it later and I thought about it. Daddy married someone who was, and here's something else. This is where I say God had a hand in this. I've always said, it takes two to make an argument. It's never one sided. It's never just one. And I can't blame my mom. I can't blame my dad for the divorce. All I'm sorry for is that I lost my mom, and I never had a mom."

At the conclusion of the interview, she reiterates her belief in divine intervention:

"And the thing about it is, it was all happened because God allowed it to happen."

Despite the hardships and losses she experienced, Aunt Barbara expresses gratitude for the opportunity to discover her family history and share these stories:

"As you can tell, there's so many stories, and this is something else, that group of people back then, I heard it over and over again. I'll not say that all. Take it to my grave, and I'd say, don't take it to your grave. Tell it. It's something. Share. Share it. I don't believe in taking it to the grave."

She acknowledges the emotional impact her stories can have: "Sometimes she can tell parts of that story and people will break down and cry." But she insists on their authenticity: "But it's all true."

Note: The interview ends with Barbara expressing appreciation for Jason's effort to record and organize her stories, recognizing the value in preserving these family memories for future generations.